对话：冯峰 + 卢麃麃

采访：Elena 伍星
被采访：冯峰 + 卢麃麃冯峰
广州美术学院教授，实验艺术系主任。
Feng Feng Professor of Guangzhou Academy of Fine Art, director of department of experimental art

卢鑣鑣
广州美术学院工业设计学院副教授。
Lu Biaobiao Deputy professor of department of industry design of Guangzhou Academy of Fine Art

ID：您们是如何理解自然与不自然？How do you comprehend the natural and unnatural?

冯峰 + 卢麃麃：我们愿意把它看成是一个东西。
在这个地球上，所谓的不自然就是人为的，除了人为的其他都是自然的。但今天，我们一眼望去这个地球上究竟还有多少不是人为的呢？所以，其实我们几乎无法把自然和不自然完全分开。当我们用一支笔去画一幅风景时，是不自然的，但那却是自然赋予我们的；当我们种植庄稼并且为庄家除虫撒药时，是不自然的，但那却是自然教会我们获取食物的一种方式。

We are willing to see it as a thing.
On the earth, the so-called artificial world is a man-made world. Apart from the artificial world, the rest is the natural world. But today, how much exactly is not artificial on the earth? So, as a matter of fact, it is almost impossible for us to make a clear distinction between the natural world and the artificial world. Drawing a landscape with a brush is not natural, but it was done on the base of natural world; growing crops and spraying pesticide to kill insects are also not natural, instead they are methods that the nature teaches us how to get food.

ID： “实验”艺术注重反思批判和创作的诉求，您们的作品从视觉和思想力量都非常强烈的反映着这种诉求，是如何做到的？
The "experimental" art emphasizes demands of reflection, criticism and creation, which could be reflected from the vision and ideological power of your works. How did you do that?

冯峰 + 卢麃麃：哈哈。这是如何做到的？我真的不知道。我不知道该如何回答你的问题。这说来话长了。当你想到这样做的时候，你就会做到了。

Haha. How did I do it? I really do not know. I do not know how to answer your question. This is a long story. When you think of doing so, you will do.

ID： 能否谈谈时间宫殿的创作心得？
Could you talk about the ideas on “The Palace of Time“?

冯峰 + 卢麃麃：《时间中的宫殿》这一设计，就是把树种成了房子，两座像宫殿一样的大房子，由两个七十米长，三十多米宽的树林构成了房子的主体，树冠被修剪成唐代宫殿的形状，飞檐、斗拱……在这里，建筑是一个时有时无的形象，是一个不断生长中的建筑。

其实它不是建筑，因为它没有一刻停止过变化和生长。

它本身就是一个巨大的生命体。它更像是一部电影，一部播放一年的电影，但当下一场播放开始时，它却已经变成了上一场的续集……年复一年，周而复始，讲述着大自然的生长和历史的变迁。 它是一个用时间筑就的宫殿，同时，用时间讲述着传奇宫殿和宫殿的传奇。 它就像是，博尔赫斯的小说《沙之书》。一本永远读不完的书，你每次翻开的那一页，下一次都无法重新找回……，它像时间一样流过，却几乎没有尽头。

如果说，有所谓的心得，那就是它让我对世界的理解有了厚度。也让我对中国古人的智慧更加感到敬慕而又好奇：为了解救赵国，却去了别处，去围攻魏国，而去别处的同时却正好解救了赵国；郎中为了给病人退烧，不是用冰，而是给你吃大黄，让你拉稀；六组慧能用手指着月亮让你看，是为了让人忘掉他的手指；教人顿悟，不说话，却用棒子打你的头。

In the “The Palace of Time “, trees have become a house. The main bodies of the two big palace-like houses consisted of two woods, each of which is 70 meters long and more than 30 meters wide. The crowns of the trees are trimmed to the shapes of cornices, brackets and so on in the palace of the Tang Dynasty. Here, the building is a sporadic and ever-growing image.

In fact, it is not a building, but a huge living organism, because it changes and grows at every moment. It is more like a movie, a movie of the year. The moment when a new one begins, it has become on a sequel of the last one, talking about the growth and the historical changes of the nature year after year.

It is a palace made of time, talking about the legends of the palace in the legendary palace.

It is like Borges's novel Book of Sand. You can never finish reading a book, because actions of opening the pages flowing like time, cannot be regained ..., but with almost no end.

If there are so-called creative ideas, I think they might be some things thickening my understanding of the world and making me be more adoring and curious for the wisdom of the ancients in China: in order to save the State of Zhao, State of Qi went to siege State of Wei; doctors treated the fever patients with rhubarb to make them have diarrhoea rather than with ice; the reason why Huineng pointed to the moon with fingers was to make people forget his fingers; teaching people epiphany with a stick hitting them in the head instead of words.

ID：能否谈谈您这次“不自然2”的创作方向？
Could you talk about the idea of your creation in Un-natural II?

冯峰 + 卢麃麃：我想用一个极不自然的方式去还原一个自然地路径。

I want to restore a natural path with a very artificial way.

• 《灵魂出窍-烟灰缸》
• 《灵魂出窍-熏香炉》
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