对话：冯果川
采访：Elena 伍星
被采访：冯果川深圳筑博建筑设计有限公司副总建筑师，著名学者，城市规划专家。
ID：您是如何理解自然与不自然？
What’s your apprehension on Natural and Un-Natural?
冯果川：自然、不自然可以做这样一个简单的区分：就是看在物的生成过程中是否有人类劳动和意志的介入。这是从过程的角度来理解不自然，它接近人工的概念，但是我觉得不自然比人工的含义更宽、更微妙。进一步我们可以从材料生成和产品生成两个环节上理解自然、不自然。材料上天然的可以视为自然，由人工合成的可以视为不自然。在产品上，天然的或者自然力形成的形状可以视为自然，人为加工的形状视为不自然。
但是，随着工艺的发展，人们难以了解过程，所以大家会从结果的角度来理解，把不像天然的材料和形状视为不自然，比如自然的形状往往不规则，人造物的形状常是明晰的几何形状。
A simple factor may distinguish nature and un-nature: it is-- whether there are involvements of mankind activities & minds in the process of subject-forming. This is to understand un-natural from the perspective of process which is close to the concept of artificial, though from my point, The meaning of Un-natural is much wider and more subtle than artificial. Subjects that are made by natural materials could be seen as nature, while to the opposite, artifactitious stuffs we can define them as Un-natural. About products, the shape formed via the force of nature can be deemed as natural and those made by man- made force can be seen as Un-natural.
However, with the development of craftsmanship, it is difficult to understand the process, people usually try to understand it from the resulting appearances and deem those materials and shapes that looks not natural as un-natural. For example, a natural object is often irregular in shape while an artificial object is often with definite geometry.
ID： 我们知道您一直在探索中国城市和建筑之间的关系，您认为中国到底需要什么样的建筑体？
We know that you have been exploring the relationship between urban and architecture in China, Which kinds of buildings do you think China really needs?
冯果川：我对建筑的社会维度比较有兴趣。中国社会发展得比较不平衡，有很多问题。我们认为建筑可以对某些社会问题起到一点积极的推动作用。建筑是空间上的利益分配，也是空间上的社会关系法则的书写。我觉得中国需要有益于社会平等、开放的建筑。
I am interested in the society dimension of architecture. China’ society was developed in an unbalanced way, there are plenty of issues. We hold the ideas that architecture could play a positive role on some particular social issues. Architecture is not only the distribution of spatial benefits, but also the writing of social relationships of spaces. Therefore I think that China needs the kind of architecture that can promote social balance and openness.
ID：能分享一下您“华强北街道改造”的项目？
Would you like to share your project of “North of HuangQiang road”?
冯果川：华强北立体街道项目是一个以组织疏导交通为出发点的项目，但是我们希望为这个项目赋予更明确和丰富的社会生活意义和文化内涵。
简单地说，我们充分肯定华强北现有的活力，以比较小的构筑物置入街道空间，主要是为缺乏识别性的街道赋予鲜明有趣的形象，并提供该地区所缺乏的公共服务和休闲空间。在地下我们建立了一个高效的步行空间串联四条地铁线的站点，并利用地下空间设置比较成规模的文化服务设施。
可见，这个方案是从华强北如何更健康发展，如何更具多样性的城市生活的角度来构思的。
HQB 3D streets project is a project that initiated from the starting point of diverting traffics of the district, furthermore, we wish to give the project more explicit and rich social meaning and culture connotation.
Simply put, We fully acknowledge the existing vitality of the Huaqiang North district, and built-in some small scale facilities into street space, with the main purpose of giving some fascinating images to the street which is lack of identifiability, and to provide several public services and leisure spaces. We established an efficient pedestrian passage system that can link 4 subway stop points, and equipped them with cultural service facilities.
Obviously, this scheme is conceived from the angle of how to make Huaqiang North district develop in a more healthy way, and with more various urban life.
ID：能否谈谈您这次“不自然2”的创作方向？
Would you like to share your direction in creating “Un-Natural 2”?
冯果川：我关心的是在自然与不自然之间的模糊地带，这个模糊既可以是两个概念之间的，也可以是不同评判角度（生成过程或者外观结果）之间的。我们的设计概念叫“一滩石”，是个很自然的描述，从外观结果上看似乎也很自然：边界不明确的一片卵石。但是这个外观中又藏有不自然的成分，比如卵石间是连接在一起的，如同地毯，另外卵石是挖空的，既比自然的轻又可以透光，这有些不自然。从生成的过程看，材料是自然的石材，但加工的工艺是人工的，但是这个加工中又无法严格控制最终的形状，又包含了听天由命的成分。所以我们的设计是在结果和过程两个层面上都是自然与不自然两个概念的纠结。
What I am concerned about is the gray area in between natural and un-natural, this ambiguity can be either between the two concepts, or it can be between the different angel of judgments (generation process or the appearance of results). Our design concept is called "a pool of Pebbles", it is a very natural description, and it seemed very natural from the resulting appearances: A pool of pebbles with an indefinite boundary. Though there are some unnatural elements hidden inside the appearance, for instance, like a carpet, the pebbles are connected with each other; and the pebble rock is hollowed, which means, they are lighter than natural pebble and they are opaque which is a bit un-natural. From its generation process, the material is natural stone, but the machining process is artificial, but the machining process can not strictly control the final shape, it contains a fatalistic component. Therefore, our scheme is tangled between natural and unnatural, both from the result and from the process.
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